Film: The Whole Wide World
Discuss it here ~
For those who have not yet seen the film, click on the photo for clips, caps, and articles.
posted by lljudge @ 3:49 PM
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Tuesday, August 08, 2006
For those who have not yet seen the film, click on the photo for clips, caps, and articles.
70 Comments:
I think this is a remarkable film, one with great performances by Renee Zwelleger and Mr. D'Onofrio. It may be his best performance. And the music score is tremendous.
Pat
Shrieeekk!!
I love this movie! The first ROMANTIC movie I've seen... no wait... it was SECOND! The first one was HAPPY ACCIDENTS with Ms. Marissa Tomei. I love the actresses Mr. VDO he was paired with! I'm glad they worked together in a same movie! They all did their best! I dream that someday that Mr. VDO and Miss Sandra Bullock will be together. I hope there's Miss Congeniality 3.
Back to TWWW, Mr. VDO, I enjoyed your movie with Miss Zellwegger! You two ARE the most KAWAII (means cute) couple when you make a biographical movie together! Will there another movie for you two again? You truly are fantabulous, Mr. VDO & Miss Zellwegger! (^_^)
I treated myself to this movie a couple of months ago and loved it. RZ is so wonderful in it. It is a sad story but very interesting. Howard's inner demons helped him to greatness and kept him from leaving his mother's side.
It contains thebest movie kiss in the world!!
What a classic example of Mr. D'Onofrio's developing a complete character including the walk, the gestures that show Robert Howard's
shifts in mood and even the accent.
You forget you are watching Vincent and just lose yourself in the story. Even the director said he would get so lost in the scene that he would forget to say stop filming.
Nila
nila, I was impressed by VDO's accent as well, (and with all due respect, accents don't seem to be his forte), tho I must admit I cannot place the central Texas accent like the more deep south east Texas or the more cowboy twangy west Texas. Even modern sound clip samples from Central Texas aren't homogeneous enough to get a perfect read on..I'm in linguistics and can explain the features of the dialect, but I've been fooled enough by the sheer breadth of "Texas" diversity to even put the stamp of verification on it.
I'm pretty sure Howard moved around quite a bit in his young life...so how Vincent even derived how to approach the accent of central Texas in the 30's is intriguing to me. I suppose his co-star (Zellwegger was raised there, I believe)could have been of some help overall, but I wonder if he took lessons in the regional dialect, or just sampled the environment and did his take on it.
Anyway, he didn't overly clip, drawl or twang it, and imo it was effective because he did not overdo it. There is a theory current on the regional dialect today that modern central Texas speech patterns are actually considerably more 'southern' today than they were in the mid 20th century. That would make Vincent's 'choice' even more astute.
Of course, it will take a bona fide Texan to get the best assessment.
PS, Gem...imho D'Onofrio is the flat out world's best on-screen kisser (and I prefer a LOT left to the imagination)..absolutely tops in technique.
But I thought his kissing in TWWW was just what it should have been...illustrating Howards's lack of experience with women, basic shyness, inability to reconcile that incredibly active imagination filled with goddesses and divas with his actual very 'homeboy' level lifestyle and very limited interaction with women.
That was 'aww shucks' kissing, as it darn well should have been.
I can recommend at least 10 films where his character did 'better' if you're interested:)
But I am open to persuasion...
later!
OMG --- If you haven't seen this movie yet, you've got to get a copy, turn the phone off, grab a box of kleenex, and enjoy the roller coaster of emotions! Renee plays her role with realistic restraint and bewilderment, and Vincent makes you absolutely ache for him when he suffers and fights his various demons. But THE KISS is arguably the most romantic kiss in cinematic history, IMHO. People always look doubtful when I declare that, but by the time the kiss occurs you care so much about the characters that you feel the emotion right to the bone. At the end of the movie I felt as if the story had happened to people I knew and loved, and I felt helpless to help them fix things... that hasn't happened with any other film I can think of!
Firefligh, as a fellow linguist I was also really impressed with Vincent's accent, and the consistency of it. Since it was a subtle accent, I thought it seemed more authentic.
Oh, what a wonderful film -- thank goodness people keep discovering it -- on Amazon.com there is a long string of enthusiastic reviews of it by those who found it by word of mouth. Timing was not on the side of TWWW, since it came out at the same side as "Titanic"!
Thanks for giving us a chance to kvell over this beautiful movie!!
This was a great film. I bought it recently and was completely caught off gaurd by the ending. I loved the chemestry between Donofrio and Zelweger, and that kiss was the best! That slide into it gets me every time:) TWWW is just another example of what a great actor he is, they both are, in that I was completely caught up in their characters:)
ok, I want the 10 films listed! :)
I havent seen TWWW yet ( I wish I could, but I'm limiting myself to hired DVD's lest I start a very expensive movie collection) but I HAVE seen THAT kiss on many a clip floating around the internet. The thing I love most about the kiss is the lean into it, like shes a magnet he's just drawn to.
"The Whole Wide World" should be seen by the whole wide world-great performances, wonderful true but sad story, loved the scenery and though the kiss is certainly up at the top of all screen kisses, the most moving scene was towards the end of the movie in the car when Bob asked Novalyne if she loved him-absolutely stunning-great supporting performance as well-this movie should have been at the top of all Academy Award nominations-just an all around great film. So moved by this story, that I just had to purchase Novalyne's book as well.
okay! You guys have talked me into it. This movie is next on my Netflix queue!!
~Dani~
The TWWW kiss is a romantic, plot leading up to boy kisses girl kiss…you want it to happen, and if it didn't, sigh!..… tho it was a great, sweet kiss, it was 'standard'... special imho, only because VD'O so accurately nailed the writer's duality (extraordinarily creative life as a writer and inexperienced 'real' life), as well as the author's fundamental innocence.
But it's the kind of screen kiss that if you've seen one, you've seen them all from Gable and Leigh to Fiennes and Scott-Thomas….yawn, that's when I take the popcorn break. I can relate to 12 year old boys who go 'aww, stupid MUSHY stuff".
I don’t mean to say kisses need to be 'graphic' - just the opposite - my idea of the sexiest love scene ever filmed was Nicholson and Dunaway in Chinatown, when Polanski just shows Jack's JJ Geddes stretching out a languid arm while smoking a cigarette in bed on the morning after, Faye gazing at him adoringly. You can tell just from their cat like contentment just how good the night before was…no need for nudity, no need for touching - that, imo is the fullest expression of eroticism in film...trusting the actors' appeal enough to flood the imagination. But then, I guess to get that level of sensuality across with just an outstretched arm, you need a Jack Nicholson?
Vincent's great kissing is in films that haven't been Dr. Zhivagos or From Here to Eternities (tho Lancaster, he could kiss). They've been in Claire Dolan, Fires Within, Household Saints, Velocity Of, Mystic Pizza, etc (and I can name 5 more, Tobes, lol, try me) - films where you can see he has incredible, umm, technique. This is a family board I am sure, so I don't need to belabor it, just say his short choppy prelim kisses combined with his touching of his partner's hair or holding of her head is absolutely the best example of how women want to be kissed that I've ever seen any actor demonstrate. But then again, this guy has more of a read on his 'feminine side' than most any other actor, doesn’t he?
I'm not getting paid half a cent per word like Robert E Howard, so let me end by saying as a classic movie buff who's checked it all out from Garfield and Bogart on thru, I have yet to see ONE actor do it with more attention to what pleases women…including Brando, Clift..et al….and in roles that weren't big so-called 'romantic leads'. I won't even get into the younger clueless lot now being passed off in films…they kiss like they're looking in a mirror, and probably are. Please, try to at look like you like women at least half as much as you like yourselves.
Cripe, Vincent kissed with more understanding of what a kiss IS in a film as benighted as "The Winner" in a role as a near dimwit than I've seen in major love stories. I will fight to the death on this one issue, lol, (D'Onofrio has the best on-screen kissing technique), and I came to appreciate that only because I so dislike 'sex' in movies, gratuitous or otherwise, that my recognition of something wonderful has been heightened by my loathing of the Hollywood/indie kissing continuum that runs from cardboard sterile to tasteless groping.
Good night!!!!!before this sweet thread get hi-jacked. :)
Bought this movie as a relatively new vdo fan after reading so much about "the kiss." It certainly lives up to all the praise. VDO is brilliant in the film, and although Olivia D'Abo was originally signed and rehearsed for the role, I can't imagine anyone but Renee Zellweger as Novalyne.
I absolutely love the idea of "dissecting" vdo's movies. Maybe now someone can explain a number of the nuances in "Claire Dolan" that escape me; it's uncaptioned and I can't make out some of the dialogue.
Oh, and what are those 10 films ...
this movie is in my top 10 best movies ever. i did not know about the real story so i was totally off guard with the ending too. i didn't like renee zellwegger but now i do!
the story is told so well, the actors are so great, the scenery, the atmosphere .. amazing!
it's already said before: you totally forget you're watching vincent and find yourself in the middle of everything. i had to withhold from sreaming to the screen sometimes .. ;-)
i totally understood why novalyne had no idea what to do with him and with her feelings.
and even Bob was an emotionally-stunted, narcissistic jerk, obsessed with his mother, i understood him too .. a bit ..
he's confused too, one moment he tells her he needs to be free, he needs to walk his path by his own (this was so sad), but when she starts dating his friend he's not happy. my heart broke when he screamed: "I did not know what I was talking about!"
I could go on and on about this movie but I won't .. ;-)
I have a (quick) question for y'all.
In your opinions, did he ever love her?
firefligh, I don't think he was capable to love for real. he loved himself too much and his mother,
he had no idea what love was all about.
so, I guess my answer to your question is: no.
I think he wanted to love her, but I think he also saw her as competition. Someone who would take his attention away from his work, someone who would try to change him.
Two comments: In response to firefligh, this will sound trite, but I believe he loved her in his way, the best he could considering his emotional limitations. More than that, he needed her and that was evident in the car scene toward the end. Second comment: If you have the DVD, once you've exhausted watching the film (took me a few times), be sure to watch the entire thing with the narrative turned on. Listening to the commentary, but especially VDO, provides major insight into his thoughts on the movie, his contributions, and feelings about his own performance. I enjoyed it almost as much as the movie itself.
...trying...not...to read...comments...before...seeing...movie... I'm just psyched to see the number of people who have opened up with their thoughts on the film! By the time I watch it this weekend, I would have, more than likely, missed the boat on the conversation; but it's kind of exciting to see for any future film commentaries that the Admin has room to allow on the blog. Pretty nice!
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miss firefligh...
i believe mr. r. howard did love miss n. price, but only her company and friendship. they remained friends thru mail until the day he died. it was so heartbreaking for miss price to lose a man she loved so much since they first met. if he truly loved her more than a friend, he'd stand up on his feet and travel around looking for her. well, he let her go, that was his choice. or... he didn't want her to expect too much from him just because he's focus on his work and on his mother. to me, he should feel lucky that such a fine woman like miss price did show her great love and concern towards him.
(sniff)... the moment she received the sad telegram about mr. VDO... oops sorry... mr. howard really broke me into tears!
good day (^_^)
Two words: It's awesome - and as others have observed, contains the best movie kiss in history ;-)
I think he loved her. I think he was emotional stunted and very afraid of intense interaction.
The book said he had was involved in the town activities for a time..pre Novalyn. Makes you wonder what happened. I do think that he was like many great talents, isolated in his world but the presence of his genius. Not even his father understood him.
My first time on the blog..what fun! Nila
I LOVED that film. Vincent is SO HANDSOME in that film. The Whole Wide World is one of my favorite movies of him. Vincent was fabulous. I never seen him performed so wild in a movie. Such a sad ending.
vdoluvr, i need to get the dvd, only have the vhs...I think you're right that he realized he needed her..doesn't he quite plaintively say towards the end, "I just want somebody to love and to love me..is that too much to ask?" I think on some level he understood he was going under, and had to make a deep enough connection with someone just to hang on.
But it wasn't about a great passion on his part, in any way, shape, or form.
Ever.
She knew that, and knew it would make them both unhappy because he would be 'settling' in many ways and she would be constantly insecure.
I also agree he "loved her in his own way", but she understood that way was not the full expression of a man loving a woman.
Imo, he needed someone or thing more than she was at the time..I always call it, perhaps cornily, a 'Muse". I think 'that' woman could have made the difference in turning him from his conscious or subconscious 'decision' to end his life.
Don't you think it's significant that Howard's desperate pursuit of Novalyne (i.e. the weepy scene in the car) came only after his dying mother gave him permission?
sep, i guess it's pretty much estabished that Howard's mother exerted considerable influence, even control, over him. But tho she may have been able to keep him away from Novalyne to some degree, we don't know if she would have been able to, or even wanted to, keep him away from a woman he had a strong desire to be with.
It's never simple with these surfacely 'mama's boys'. The 'control' often seems to operate as an unspoken agreement when the son simply finds it expedient to allow his mother to appear like she's an obstacle, when in reality, his own feelings about a woman are the obstacle. Funny how most of them they manage to break free when they find someone they really want. :)
One of the aspects I really liked about the film was the degree of control, and the manifestation of it that was portrayed. There was a store scene in which the mother, standing close to her son, smugly smiles at Novalyne...we all know what that look means. But we didn't see hysterical or even angry scenes in which mother threatens whatever consequence if son 'abandons' her.
Those mother-son relationshps are much more 'mutual' than the gal on the outside like to believe...imo the mom was more open to seeing her son relate seriously to a girl once she herself felt herself more closely approaching death..I think she wanted her son cared for when she was gone.
But Robert may actually have intensified his pursuit of Novalyne not because his mother was finally 'allowing' it, but to ease his mother's mind about being cared for after his death. The film never made me feel the control was either absolute, nor of great psychological harm to Robert.
It always operated more on that 'mutual' level, imo.
Whoa... someone from the last subject post mentioned "Household Saints". I have to remind my sweet husband to rent it for me.
Thank you for reminding me!
Gotta run... my husband days, "GONE" in LOCI is on USA network! (^_^)
Is there a PO Box mailing address where I can write to Vincent?
I absolutely loved this film - and cried for hours after watching it. What about THAT kiss - so romantic.
Sigh........
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sic, I meant to meant ease her mind about him being cared for after her death, not his.
I have another question..I liked how the director had Bob and Novalyne tool around the Texas country side and talk..both for the gorgeous scenery and because the car provided a neutral ground between Robert's writing fortress where no one ever seemed to go (it was his bedroom wasn't it?) and the society he often felt uncomfortable in.
But I also saw somewhere criticism of too many scenes being set in the car.
And I don't want to vouch for it 100 percent, but I think I recall even Ireland was intent on 'getting the action out of the car".
To me the car scenes worked so well - there is where you got to know the two main characters - but then , I actually enjoy 'dialogue". Anyone have a response to the criticism it was too much car?
VDOFANGURL, I wrote to Vincent months ago. I asked Vincent to autograph a picture I've sent him. Vincent did and it only took six days to get it back. I wish there is an address where we could write to him when LOCI is not filming. I wonder how long it takes to get the mail to Vincent when they are not filming.
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The variation on shadow boxing scene was my absolute favorite. Even more so than 'the kiss'...Vincent just hasn't had enough roles, imho, that play up his impressive physique.
That scene in TWWW..well, Howard was something of an amateur boxer and prided himself on it, and added to the delight of seeing the Howard character throwing lefts and rights as he strode down that path was the sheer pleasure of watching V'DO look like he could step straight into "Body and Soul".
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thank you teresa and administrator
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I love twww! I'm actually a fan of Robert Howard's work and read the memoir first, but I loved the movie - it is certainly in my top 5!
I saw comments on if REH loved Novalyne or not and in her memoir, she describes 2 times when he made comments about wanting to buy her a ring and she didn't respond, so I think he really did. He just had issues - lots and lots of issues! It feels like, up to a point, they kept each other guessing until neither had the strength left to deal with it.
Anyway, the performances in this film are amazing, it's well written and directed (especually for a first-time director) and it's beautifully shot in an almost epic way at times and I would recommend it to anyone. :)
I have read so much about the movie that I can't wait to see it. I love Renee and Vincent together. The movie looks like a real gem.
kris, I'm ashamed to say I still haven't read Price Ellis' memoir...it's interesting that she wrote that he twice mentioned buying her a ring...but does she ever say he told her he loved her? Even more importantly, does he say she feel he loved her?
Evidently, she turned him down(as in the movei) because she realized he did not love her, not in the way that gives any man and woman a chance to make a marriage successful. Reaching out for someone to love, or for an anchor in your life , or even proposing marriage, does not necessarily mean the person proposing loves that person in the deepest romantic sense. Howard was desperate for someone to love and to love him, someone to anchor him..he must have seen the abyss in front of him, and known for some time where it was leading.
But I think Novalyne was wise enough, despite her youth, to understand what was missing in his feelings toward her. She knew she wasn't 'special' enough to him to make a marriage work long term. Of course, how could she know he was also so needy at that point that he wasn't going to be able to carry on alone.
Again, I need to read it myself, but someone else I know who did said she was impressed by Novalyne's refusal to claim Bob Howard had ever loved her.
But props to you for actually reading the memoir as well as Howard's work.
A couple of comments - okay three.
1. I'm not a linguist. I am a Texan. Overall, I felt Vincent did a fine job. I felt the first car scene when they first meet was a bit rough around the edges. I believe though that this was also an early scene and the actors had really met a short time before. The accent seemed more honed after that.
2. Did he love her? One thing not mentioned in this discussion thus far is the belief that he was bipolar. Bipolar disorder is obviously an illness on a continuum so there will be all sorts of manifestations from one person to another. Certainly being bipolar doesn't rule out the ability to love. It does however, interfere with communications and relationships in general and if severe can make for the kind of extreme emotions seen in Howard. The boasting itself could have been Howard in a manic phase and have nothing to do with "true arrogance" or ego at all. I am not bipolar, but I have family members and friends that are. My ex is bipolar I (as in "one", moderate to severe) and i've seen mania up close and personal. As well as the bottom of the wave, the depressive phase.
3. The many scenes in the car. We can't forget that cars were a luxury not only in that time but in that place and that there was very little else out there to entertain oneself with. Even into the 1970s my dates often just wanted to go driving around the countryside (eventually finding their way to a quiet spot of course. :P ) But in a small town in Texas, we didn't have very much else to do. I found it completely in keeping with the times and the place for much of their interaction to be in the car. In fact, the most uncomfortable scene for me was the one in the theatre where it was obvious (well, to me) that Bob just felt completely uneasy with all those people around. (another possible facet of bipolar disorder, it is often accompanied by anxiety disorders.)
just my lazy .02
hmmmm.... if this comment doesn't get posted, I may well take it personally ;>)
*****
I have also suggested elsewhere that Bob E Howard may well have suffered from manic depression (bipolar). I have experienced living with someone with this condition. A vivid imagination, creativity and grandiose ideas are certainly symptomatic of a manic episode. Planning how to commit suicide is symptomatic of a very bad depressed episode. I have lived with it all.
Having said that, this close family member is now living with another sufferer, as bf/gf and there is no doubting their love for each other. Some manic depressants are more than capable of sustaining a loving relationship; others can't.
It is true reh alluded to buying novalyne a diamond ring, particularly for Christmas, but I think he believed that is what she wanted.
She was a highly opinionated young lady and an intellectual match for him, but she was straightlaced and rigid in her thinking, considering she wanted to write. Writing her personal memories of reh wrote itself from the journals she kept. She came across as fairly uncaring and most unsympathetic and after all these years she could have put herself in a better light, but I admire her for her candour. I don't think she ever understood him or tried to understand him. She sought him out to help her with her writing ambitions and a friendship developeed. She thought she loved him at one time, she tried to suppress it, but she was shallow and didn't see the real Robert. She wanted him to be something he wasn't.
Maybe if he had met the right girl who cared for him enough, he may have been saved. She was not that girl and in any event it was always his intent to kill himself before his mother died. Two lines often quoted, as follows, are great indicators, but more so his poetry.
"The man, who chooses to follow a dream to its bitter and ultimate end, walks alone."
"For a life to be worth living, a man... man or woman... must have either a great love or a great cause; I have neither."
In a shadow panorama
Passed life's struggles and its fray.
And my soul tugged with new vigor,
Huger grew the phantom's figure,
As I slowly pulled the trigger,
Saw the world fade swift away.
Through the fogs old Time came striding,
Radient clouds were 'bout me riding,
As my soul went gliding, gliding,
From the shadow into day.
Yes, Ann!
And in the same poem were the lines..
"I was weary of tide breasting,
Weary of the world's behesting,
And I lusted for the resting
As a lover for his bride."
He was not yet 20 when he wrote this, I believe.
I LOVE this movie! Vincent D'Onofrio once again plays the role beautifully with such deep intensity and passion. This story was such a beautiful tragedy. They had a deep connection, mutual respect and love that others may not understand but in the end it wasn't enough to save him. Each time I watch this movie (and it's been MANY times) it brings me to tears at the end when their on-again off-again relationship is tragically brought to an end. I would suggest this movie to anyoe who loves a good romance story and of course it's a MUST HAVE for any Vincent D'Onofrio fan.
And finally, I have to add...THAT KISS!!! OMG!!! One of THE BEST of all time! It's such a classic movie moment!! Love it!
firefligh: I love the lines you quoted... they are all from The Tempter and attributed to his late teens or early twenties... an age when the first signs of manic depression can manifest itself.
geez, whoever it was here who mentioned the dvd commentary with VDO, thanks!! after watching the film upteenth times on vhs, it should have occured to me to get the dvd..and wow what a treat.
I loved what Vincent had to say about his co-stars...the appreciation and respect..particularly enjoyed the 'Blanche DuBois' remarks.
Also was intrigued by the enigmatic remarks re the scenes he wanted to get the chance to do again...and both of them were very 'physical scenes'..including my favorite, the boxing one. But he didn't say WHY he was dissatisfied with them. Something tells me it was more than a few lefts looking a little roundhouse - wish he'd said more in that regard.
And gee, he almost stabbed himself in the sword scene!
Anyway, that entire commentary was just enthralling...and I watched the film again yet one more time, with the sound off, just to pay better attention to the lighting. So beautiful.
blog author
This has been such a popular blog subject. Perhaps you could do it again with a different vdo movie as the topic.
nila
"Who are you?" I asked the phantom,
"I am rest from Hate and Pride.
"I am friend to king and beggar,
"I am Alpha and Omega,
"I was councilor to Hagar
"But men call me suicide."
I was weary of tide breasting,
Weary of the world's behesting,
And I lusted for the resting
As a lover for his bride."
- "The Tempter"
A little more evidence of his intent.
Can anyone help me find more of his poetry?
"I am rest from hate and pride".
Nowadays, you get anyone at that age writing lines that announce Death a refuge, even a published author, and bells start ringing.
I wonder if Howard had been writing in a venue more 'sophisticated' than the pulps, some lit crit would have turned attention to his Poe-like bent. But of course, he wasn't penning halfpenny a word poems for "H.L. Mencken's rags", and of course, even in death his suicide never carried the panache of a Plath's or Woolf's.
But his poetry was darn fine, wasn't it?
I agree with Nila, let's do this again with another vdo movie (or even CI episode) -- but keep the TWWW comments coming for now. This has been a most informative, intelligent and fascinating blog stream.
I just came across a letter from Howard's dad to H.P. Lovecraft discussing Howard's death and the events leading up to it as well as the purposeful timing of his death. It also talks of the relationship that was shared between Howard and his dad. It is a great letter and answered some important questions for me. Enjoy.
DR. I. M. HOWARD to
H. P. LOVECRAFT,
dated June 29, 1936
Mr. H. P. Lovecraft
66 College Street
Providence, R.I.
My Dear Mr. Lovecraft:
It is barely possible through some other source that you may have heard of the death of Robert E. Howard, my son. If not, I will say that after three weeks of vigilant watching at his mother's bedside, on the morning of June 11, 1936, at eight o'clock, he slipped out of the house, entered his car which was standing in front of the garage, raised the windows and fired a shot through his brain. The cook standing at the window at the back part of the house, saw him go get in his car. She thought he was fixing to drive to town as he usually did. When she heard the muffled sound of the gun, she saw him fall over the steering wheel. She ran in the house and called the physician who was in the house. The doctor was taking a cup of coffee in the dining room and I was talking with him. We rushed to the car and found him. We thought at first that it was a death shot but the bullet has passed through the brain. He shot himself just above the temple. It came out on the opposite side, just above and behind the left ear. He lived eight hours and never regained consciousness.
I was watching Howard as this was premeditated, and I knew it, but I did not think that he would kill himself before his mother went. His mother was in coma and had been for many hours when this occurred. There were two trained nurses in the house and doctors there all the time. He did not ask a doctor, neither did he ask me, but he asked a nurse if she thought his mother would ever regain consciousness enough to know him, and the nurse told him she feared not. This was unknown to me. Had I known, I might have prevented this, because I know now that he fully made up his mind not to see his mother die.
Last March a year ago, again when his mother was very low in the King's Daughters Hospital in Temple, Texas, Dr. McCelvey expressed a fear that she would not recover; he began to talk to me about his business, and I at once understood what it meant. I began to talk to him, trying to dissuade him from such a course, but his mother began to improve. Immediately she began to improve, he became cheerful and no more was said. Again this year, in February, while his mother was very sick and not expected to live but a few days, at that time she was in Shannon Hospital in San Angelo, Texas. San Angelo is something like one hundred miles from here. He was driving back and forth daily from San Angelo to home. One evening he told me I would find his business, what little there was to it, all carefully written up and in a large envelope in his desk. Again I begged him not to do it, but he positively did not intend to live after his mother was gone.
As the months grew on, his mother showed some improvement. He accepted her condition as one of permanent improvement and one that would continue. I knew well that it would not, but kept it from him. Two weeks before she died, she began to decline rapidly. I saw the awful worry that came over him. I was following him and watching him closely, but did not think he would do anything until his mother was gone.
In that I was mistaken, because he never intended to see his mother die. The night before his death, he assumed an almost cheerful attitude, seemed very much interested about me, as if he intended to take the lead and take care of me. He came to me in the night, put his arm around me and said, "Buck up, you are equal to it, you will go through it all right." He completely disarmed me of the intention of his death, but I well knew what to expect afterwards. He died without ever showing the least return of consciousness at four o'clock, June 11, 1936. His mother lingered thirty-one hours, never regaining consciousness.
I buried them both in the Greenleaf Cemetery at Brownwood, Texas. I selected caskets exactly alike. He had purchased a burial lot a week before this happened. It was in the restricted portion of the cemetery. The purchase carried with it a perpetual up-keep.
When he bought the lot, he went to the sexton and wanted to know if it was a bonafide contract and if it would be taken care of. He said to the sexton, "I want to know if the lot will be kept in order. My father and I will go away and never come again." Mr. Bass, the sexton, was under the impression that he contemplated something in which we would all go, but he did not expect to kill me, but knew the shock would kill me. He was careful to keep nurses and doctors around me, but no doubt thought I would die from shock, and which I think the last few lines her ever typed would indicate. These lines were found on a strip of paper in his bill fold in his hip pocket after he shot himself. The lines follow:
All fled--all done, so lift my on the pyre--
The Feast is over, and the lamps expire.
I do not know whether these words were a quotation or original, but they were typed no doubt shortly before his death.
I do not know what was in his mind. I have tried to interpret this as being the last of all the family, The Feast the thirty years of love in our home. Robert loved me with a love that was beautiful. He loved my companionship above that of anyone else and every time opportunity afforded, he spent his time with me in preference to anyone else; but being a country doctor and practicing medicine in a country comparatively thinly settled, I was away from home most of the time, but when I was permitted to be at home, our hours were spent pleasantly on discussion of men, women, animals, out-door life, adventure, history of long-lived frontiersmen, and such like. He was a great reader. It made me so happy to sit and listen. He acquired a knowledge, by reading, of history that I never knew. Lest I worry you with this I will close, but I will say in conclusion, Mr. Lovecraft, that Robert was a great admirer of you. I have often heard him say that you were the best weird writer in the world, and he keenly enjoyed corresponding with you. Often expressed hope that you might visit in our home some day, so that he, his mother and I might see and know you personally. Robert greatly admired all weird writers, often heard him speak of each separately and express the highest admiration of all. He said they were a bunch of great men and he admired all of them very much.
The Howard Payne College of Brownwood has asked for letters from correspondents. If it is agreeable with you, I will furnish them with some of your correspondence to him as he has some in his files and they are interested in letters.
His books were given to the Howard Payne College and will be known as the Robert E. Howard Memorial Collection. It is so arranged that it is possible to add to it as friends see fit. If you have a book that you would like to add to it with an autograph, it will be greatly appreciated.
Yours very truly,
Dr. I. M. Howard
I am mailing you a bundle of papers that contains the full of it all.
'lo, good people! Coming in late to the discussion having just viewed TWWW this weekend and haven't read everyone's comments just yet. I'm still thinking the film through but, as far as a first overall impression, ditto to everything that Pat (the first commenter who's post I can see while I type this) has said about the movie! Overall, I just couldn't help but walk away from the film wishing that Novelyne would have given Bob the second chance that he so desparately begged for at the end. But then, #1 -how could she be expected to know of his emotional and/or mental illness and how it affected his words and actions, and, #2 - even if she did have this scientific level of knowledge, would it really have obligated her to have tried to continue/finally be able to have the level of relationship that he wanted to really try to work at forming with her so late in their knowing one another?
It's a hard film for me to try to sum up my feelings about their relationship and his/her actions within it because of the the complexity of Robert E. Howard: his primative view of the world and what I might consider to be both right and wrong about it; what was healthy and unhealthy in his relationship with his mom and whether I felt that Novalyne had the right to demand a full severing of his ties to her while she was at her weakest (as a soon-to-be RN: that'd be a flat out, absolute, unwaveringly staunch "NO" on the latter - the only definitive opinion that I can bring myself to form!!); working through the puzzle of just what level of influence his emotional/mental illness actually had over his world view, his words, his actions, and his vacillating (right word?) treatment of Novalyne; and, ultimately, just how much he was or wasn't truly aware of himself and the consequences of his actions and, thus, just how accountable he could be held for them.
Overall, this was just a fabulous film that tells a heart-breaking story in a very powerful way. I can't bring myself to provide a objective review because it is just such a subjective string of events to have viewed. All told, all I can say is that The Whole Wide World just breaks my heart.
na
firefligh, you're right about novalyne attempting to be brutally honest with both herself and her audience about both her's and Bob's feelings, but I believe there was real feeling on both their parts (at least at one time). She says in the memoir that she refused Bob because she was in love with Truett (even though she told Bob she wasn't). The saddest part of the whole thing, to me, is that they parted on a futher misunderstanding. Novalyne sent Bob back a book she had borrowed with a note thanking him and got a scathing reply since he'd meant the book as a gift. He thought she was making a clean break and she didn't have the opportunity to correct that impression.
I agree with the poster (I'm sorry, I'm not sure who did it) who said that Bob Howard today would probably have been diagnosed with bi-polar disorder. I think Vincent D'Onofrio actually says something similar in the commentary, but that's certainly how he, as an actor, portrayed Bob Howard.
I love Howard's poetry too. That was what first drew me to his work. Have you read "Recompense"? It starts:
I have not heard lutes beckon me, nor the brazen bugles call,
But once in the dim of a haunted lea, I heard the silence fall.
I think it's an ideal illustration of REH's view of himself as someone who was born into the wrong time and place, to his bane. The last lines are:
I have not died as men may die, nor sin as men have sinned,
But I have reached a misty sky upon a granite wind.
It's as if he knows he'll never have the chance to live the way he thinks a man should and that realization has turned his horizon to dust and ash already. Anyway, I didn't mean to be this long-winded; I just haven't seen a blog like this on REH before!
ann; i've just read down through the comments ending at your post on Novalyne Price's "contribution" to their relationship. I have to say that your take is dead-on with mine. She definitely came into the relationship from a place of rigidity and preconcieved notions of who Robert should be and how he should act. This was shown most vividly at the end of their kiss, after Robert had opened up the most thus far having described himself within in the context of his new story. In this most tender of moments, Novalyne still could not think of him; only of the shallow image of the type of a man that she wanted, asking why the man couldn't be handsome and kind instead of a misfit. She didn't want to hear about who he was or how he felt about himself even when at his most bare. She only wanted him to fit her cardboard cut-out, schoolgirl notions of the perfect man. It is too bad that he had only this relationship with someone with such a hard heart and closed mind at what turned out to be the crisis point of his life - one to which she seemed to have greatly contributed.
na
Ellie, thanks so much for providing that letter, it explains so much (while so much else is still so inexplicable).
I felt after seeing the film that Howard had 'simply' thought out more extensively what so many of us intuit, but never verbalize, even to ourselves. And that is what the events are that we know we could not bear, conditions we could not continue on under.
For some people, it is realizing they could never, for example, live with being responsible for the death of another person, and for some, it is seeing their own child die before them. Most folks find the inner resources to get through anything with time and the empathy of others, but other people clearly understand what it is they simply cannot bear, and choose not to even 'try'.
For Howard, it was seeing his mother go. As tragic as his end was, and as great a loss it was to the world, I can't help but respect his self-knowledge, because it meant he had delved into his own psyche like few of us do, and made a conscious decision to do what was in his own nature.
He may have been bi-polar, but I don't feel his death was the result of a great depressive surge in the classic sense. It was a premeditated end, probably colored some by mental disorder, but mostly the result of self-understanding. As the film showed, he might well have reached out near the end to that 'great cause or great love' that would dissuade him from his decision, but it was still a decision that had been made with clarity of mind.
i thought she made that comment "why couln't he be handsome and kind" as a way of telling Bob that she did not see him as he described himself. She did this one other occassion in the car, when he put himself down. Bob was incapable of hearing it as praise and reacted accordingly. The lack of Novolyn's ability to understand Bob equals his lack of ability to understand her.
Nila
Ann, I know what you mean when you said you have a family member with bipolar. How they act. My mom married my step father 26 years ago. He has always been very abusive. We found out three years ago he has been diagnosed with bipolar, schizophenia and also suicidal and homicidal. It is had to deal with people who have mental illnesses. Robert E. Howard was very close to his mother. My step father was very close to his. When she died my step father had a little breakdown afterwards.
Naydi, I don't think that Novalyne was hard-hearted so much as too young to have found her own identity, either as a writer or a person…too young to have been able to stop caring what those around her thought. She wanted Bob to at least appear conventional, and even write in a way that would satisfy her traditionalism, but she wanted this not out of selfishness, but out of fear.
This was inter-war largely rural Texas and altho one could read progressive writers like Dreiser, Sinclair, and Lewis, extending 'difference' to real life must have been fraught with peril. Howard was an anomaly, a writer whose imagination was generated by voracious reading since boyhood, and who was not held back by lack of personal experience…his creativity was enormous…he proved false that the old adage that no one can write well until he has 'lived', because until he has lied, he simply has nothing to say.
His mind was such a fertile ground for fantasy, history, adventure, etc that he could seamlessly create out of imagination and knowledge gained from reading majestic characters, unearthly creatures, entire races of beings.
She was much more grounded in realism as a writer, as her carrying around the notebook to record what people said indicated - a habit he scoffed at as mere 'copying". But because she lacked his exceptional imagination, was very inexperienced, was female at a time when opportunities for self-expression were more limited (and more threatening to society), and had to work in a profession where appearances were essential…both thinking and living outside the box was beyond her capacity.
Howard could more afford to be his own iconoclastic self. He was making a living from his writing and had obtained both a measure of external respect for that, and the 'right' to be different. Apparently being considered the local character did not worry him one whit. He even reveled in it..ie the sombrero scene. :)
But Novalyne, still immersed in her own identity formation, lacked the ability to slough off convention….not uncommon for young people anywhere and at any time. She wanted him to dress 'right' and the film well points out her conventional bent was a product of her age and environment.
But unfortunately that rigidity prevented her from seeing the artist as he was, and from becoming the woman the artist in him needed. That was the real tragedy of the film, imo.
I’d like to think if she had met him a few years down the line, things would have been different - that she would have emerged from the need to feel so 'safe'. "Yes, I care what THEY think" she responded to Bob when he challenged her on her need to be 'accepted'. But perhaps once she had found her own voice as a writer (and more importantly, as a woman), she would have been better able to see through some of the crap.
And too, Bob gave her nothing with which to arm herself for the battle…there was no promise, explicit or implicit, that if she found the strength to challenge societal norms, he would be there to walk beside her. He wasn't even challenging his own over-bonding with his mother, and breaking free from his psychic restraints…he was internally as bound as she was externally, even more enslaved to his notion of love than she was to her traditional 'values'.
Ideally, they would have found strength in each other to mature in tandem….but how often does that gem of synchronicity shine?
Regarding the line, "Why can't he be handsome and kind..." I have to say I agree with nila. I don't think it was a matter of her wanting to change howard, but wanting to change how he saw himself. She saw him as "an extraordinary man" and thought he should see himself in the same light. Rather than saying she was shallow in wanting to change him, I would say she was naive to believe she could change how he felt about himself.
And to firefligh ... glad to hear you enjoyed the commentary as much as I did. vdo's take on the movie is incredible to hear.
Just one more verbose point, and then I promise I am off this thread for good! (but I have been waiting for literally years to talk about this film, so I forgive myself.) :)
If I sounded like I was hyper criticial of Novalyne's inability to rise above her millieu...well, I also appreciate how much more open she was to Bob's 'difference' than were the other women in town, her friends included.
The scene at 'Mrs. Smith's" where they all rag on the wacko (I always get a kick out of seeing EDO get those shots in :) was not the only time Novalyne faced the opprobrium of her peers over daring to consider Bob Howard "eligible". So she was considerably 'braver' than her friends merely by entertaining the notion of speaking to him.
She also stepped outside the strict boundaries of 1930's rural female perogatives by calling Bob over and over, and even going so far as to ask for a ride to his house. That took g-u-t-s. Women were labeled 'loose' for far, far less.
So it's doubly sad that her lingering obedience to the norms stopped just short of being able to just not give a hang about his high-waters, dislike of suit and tie, and habit of discussing fictional orgies at restaurant dinner tables.
My oh my what a gal she would have been if she had been able to kick her inner 'rebel' up just one more notch.
Finally, what the film did depict so very well was the idea that what separated her from the rest of the more conventional townsfolk was her interest in writing, his writing and her own. It was her appreciation of an art form that fueled her interest in Bob Howard, enabled her to take the chance she did to meet and get to know him, and opened the door to falling in love with him.
If there is any message I have taken away from this film, it is the power of art to extend the boundries of both human interaction and of the imagination. We can't always expect art to open every door, but we can understand there are few things that broaden our horizons like art can.
I guess we all know that, or we wouldn't be here blogging on a site dedicated to a true artist.
See you in the next film thread..
sorry,another point I would like to raise as I was leafing through Novalyne's book and I quote as she just learned of REH's death.
--- Suddenly anger spread over me. Anger that shook me. I stopped and leaned against the wall. I brushed my hand across my forehead to wipe away the sweat. I gritted my teeth. I hated Bob! I wanted to grab him and shake him. I wanted to hit him. I swore at him savagely. "You dirty sniveling coward," I said to him. "You did it. You really did it. You lily-livered, yellow coward. You...."
--- Another picture of Bob flashed across my vision. It was February 24th. I saw Bob sitting slumped in his car. I could see his eyes, fear-filled, pleading with me. I could hear his words. "I think I might live if you cared." And I heard my silly answer, "Shave your mustache and I'll talk to you about it."
Nausea welled up inside me. "I hate myself," I mumbled. "I should do what he did. He is good. I am the foolish one."
Novalyne, throughout her account, recognised that she was often wrong, that she made mistakes... Bob would leave and she realised she had said or done the wrong things, and she would reflect on it, but she never remedied the situation or reconciled it with him.
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Has anyone seen "DESIRE" movie of Mr. VDO and his ex-wife, Greta yet? I might add it to my RENT-A-MOVIE list, but can you share with me of your quick review about their movie? Thanks everyone! (^_^)
Good Night!
vdoluvr - Just to clarify my comment, i did not say that Novalyne was shallow, I stated that her image of who and how he should be as man was shallow. one can hold a shallow, idealistic view of something without that view being indicative of their entire person. I agree that her attempt to counter his thoughts of himself was naive, and that, as another poster stated, he wasn't able to hear her intent; but look at how and when she said what she said. There was no processing what his stated real view of himself meant to him, there was just the attempt to thrust her view of him onto him. She only considered how she wanted him to see himself and how she wanted him to feel. The overall intent may have been good, but the words were ill-timed and without consideration of how their construction might actually cut, given that he didn't see himself as this type of man that she's telling him, in that moment, that she desires. In a way, one could say that his brutal and isolating speech in the car thereafter was his inexperienced and incomprehensible way of trying to recapture his sense of self; as tragic and low as that sense might have been. Perhaps, she still didn't understand at that point just how deeply this man was able to feel. I would have to agree with firefligh's assessment of Novalyne's being too young to move beyond looking at him in terms of what others might think, rather than working with him in who he was. I'm certainly not going to try to claim that he made things easy for her in that department, but he did try to fit the picture of what she wanted, where he could, in his own way.
Unfortunately, these were two people who did have something to give to one another as far as the appreciation of thought beyond the conventional wisdom of the day -as firefligh notes- but neither had the emotional maturity to have been able to be more to one another than what they were. What is sad is that Bob didn't realize that he did have so much that, I believe, he was actually capable of giving to another person. He was just too broken and alone to wait any longer in the end. I couldn't imagine expecting him to have had any hope that he would have any form of love in his life once his mother was gone given the life he had lived to that point.
na
It seemed like Novalyne really cared for Bob. She kept trying to change him. When she started to try change him and saw how angry he was getting. Novalyne should have stopped. It looked like Bob really loved Novalyne. Now if Novalyne didn't leave, would he still have killed himself? It also seemed like he didn't have alot a relationships with women. All he ever had was his writting and his mother. Bob seemed like a loner.
Ditto, Teresa (^_^)
I thought it was interesting that Michael Scott Myers, who wrote The Whole Wide World screenplay, was once an English student of Novalyne Price Ellis. She must have been proud.
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